My cousin Michelle is taking a poker (poker? I don’t even know her!) in pop culture class and she wants to write her required ten page term paper on the use of poker in Star Trek. Naturally I think this is a brilliant idea, and I wanted to bring it up on here to see what kind of insight you guys could provide on the game of poker and how it reflects the nature of Star Trek.
When we were talking, Michelle raised a good point being that in Star Trek’s version of the future, there is no money. So it’s interesting that there is still the idea of betting (don’t worry Enrico) and winning and losing chips that presumably still hold some sort of value within the game. If there’s no such thing as money, how does that affect the way you approach the game of poker? Are you riskier because if you lose, you’re not really losing anything? Is being riskier in the game of poker a reflection of the risky nature of traveling the galaxy in a starship? Or is it more about calculating your risk, the way you calculate your odds of winning a hand of poker, which in a way inherently makes you less risky?
One thing I thought of relating the game of poker and Star Trek was the idea of bluffing. Say you get dealt a hand where you just need one more card to be totally awesome. You put in a crap load of money hoping you’ll get that card you need, but alas, you don’t get that card you need. But you’ve already put that buttload of money in and there’s only one person left in the hand. So you raise the stakes even more and bluff them into folding…hopefully. It’s just like having a renegade Klingon ship coming across your viewscreen and telling you they have a million photon torpedos targeted at your ship. While you count in your head that you only have 3 photon torpedos, you’re obviously not going to tell them that, right? You’re going to tell them you have a million and one photon torpedos targeted at their ship and that they better take their stupid bony heads (sorry Worf) back where they came from.
What other correlations can you guys make between the game of poker and Star Trek? Even if you know more about one than the other, your insight in either would be appreciated.
I don’t know how useful this will be to her, but Captain Picard never played in any of the games. We saw every other major character (except possibly the one season only Tasha Yar) playing poker at some point in time, except him. And then, in the final episode, right at the end, the way the wrapped it up was to have Picard sit down and play with them.
Come to think of it, this probably won’t be helpful at all, but it’s one point I remember.
HUGS….
Well, my thoughts are that it must be relaxing for the people to engage in a low risk game where the outcome depends on parts luck and parts skill (no I don’t play poker, in case that isn’t obvious) while they boldly go where no man went before every day where the outcome of any given situation also depends on luck and skill (no, I haven’t been to outer space, in case that isn’t obvious).
One thing I liked about them playing poker in Star Trek is that it is such an old game (I always think of the Wild West days when I think of poker). Even though they have Holodecks and could play super fantastic role-playing alternate universe-type games, they chose to play something that only requires a deck of cards.
No money in Star Trek’s future? What do you call gold-pressed latinum?
Ummm. Wow. You should be writing that paper and that’s a course? Really? Damn kids these days, should be learning something useful like wood carving or how to make cheese. I got nuthin, and I don’t as a general rule play poker because I can never remember the difference between a flush and a straight.
Polt: That’s a really nice touch I enjoyed also.
Bernd: That’s true. They both rely on skill AND luck. Sometimes luck more than skill.
Nicolle: Very good point. Sometimes the simplest games are the best.
Brian: I call it a Ferengi plot device!
Tam: It’s actually a Poker in Literature class if that makes you feel better. I just didn’t feel like going into detail why she was using Star Trek in a literature class, but I wasn’t anticipating your sassiness!
I was certain they bet things like replicator rations, holodeck hours, and duty (ha duty) assignments. Brian is correct that money does in fact exist in the Star Trek universe, but it doesn’t physically exist for humanity anymore. When money is no longer an object, people trade what they possess that others find valuable.
Come to think of it, it’s probably not all that different to how poker would be played in jail.
ScottieC: I like the comparison between the Enterprise and jail. It’s funny and true!
regarding money, in the first season, Picard said the Federation has no need for money. However, gold pressed latinum is used in DS9, which is on the border, and I don’t think that area is Federation space (although Bajor may be a Federation Protectorate, so I don’t know how that factors in to everything).
I’ll just agree with you Craiggers and call it all a plot device.
HUGS…
Thanks for the shout out!
And I know nothing about poker and very little about Star Trek.
I hear poker is very popular in The L Word as well. Why didn’t she want to do that? lol
Enrico has been working in the blue a lot and I am not pleased. I blame you all.
Donde esta Lady GaGa when you need her? Oh yeah, she’s probz out somewhere looking ugly, wearing bubblez and singing about sex.
Es por eso que los maricons de su amor
I don’t know too much about poker and only just finished season 3 of Star Trek (which ended rather amazingly), but I get the impression that the game is used to blow off steam; as an intellectual pursuit (who is better at strategy and bluffing) as money isn’t an issue and as a way to teach emotions and human behavior to Data.
Josh: LOL! Maybe she is getting her face poked?
Po-po-po-poker face. Fu-fu-fuck her face.
I never knew why Poker Face had an “Explicit” rating on iTunes until someone pointed out to me that those were the lyrics.
never liked that song, too umpta umpta for me. So they made it ‘interesting ‘ with dirty lyrics (rolling my eyes here). Lady GaGa’s costumes are pure genius, everyone is talking about them/her and when she puts on jeans and t-shirt nobody looks at her.
Mine doesn’t have an explicit lyrics flag? I know they edit the video and block out “Russian Roulette” and “gun”. Doesn’t sound like “Fu-fu-fuck her face.” to me, but who knows.
The radio edit doesn’t have the “fu-fu-fuck her face”. So there is a clean version and an explicit version.
Ah. I didn’t “acquire” my version from iTunes, hence the lack of an explicit flag…
In poker, at least in the version I know, you don’t start aggressively betting until all the players’ hands are finalized, so you’d never be betting and hoping you’d get a card that would complete your hand. You start betting already knowing you hand is not going to change. Then you up your bets based on what you guess your opponents have, based on how you see them playing and how good your hand is, or if you think you can make them believe your hand is superior even if it is lousy, or “bluffing”.
I think it’s less about the risk or dangers of cruising through space and more about all these Star Fleet geniuses, who can calculate massive odds in their heads, and taking a game that has that as a key element to a higher level. If you can calculate whether the damaged core engines have enough power to keep the ship going at Warp 6 in time to reach a destination before they shut down, you can calculate that if you have a pair of sevens and a pair of jacks what the statistical odds are of your opponents having a better hand. And if you need to make split second decisions regarding whether an unknown approaching craft is hostile or friendly, you probably are pretty good at observing whether your fellow crew member has a full house or is bluffing.
And I really enjoy Lady Gaga.
David: “so you’d never be betting and hoping you’d get a card that would complete your hand”
No wonder I suck at poker.
Good point bringing in their level of genius into it.
“Let’s have some fun, this beat is sick. I wanna take a ride on your throbbing erection.”
…that’s the non-radio edit. I think it’s charming.
Don’t know much about the other seasons, I only really got into Voyager, but they certainly always had bets on the go..
They normally bet their replicator rations
GoKitty: What does working in the blue mean?
Enrico: I should have said working blue. It just means you’re using sexual innuendo or off-color commentary
GoKitty: Really? Is the L Word too risque for me or something? lol
Gregor, only Voyager had replicator rations because they were stuck in the Delta Quadrant and had a 70 year trip home, so they had to use the replicators sparingly. The other series were grounded securely in the Alpha Quadrant where the Federation is (and well part of the Beta Quadrant, but that’s beyond the scope of this answer), and they had no need to ration anything.
….God, I am SUCH a trek geek…
HUGS…
*hugs*
Aye I knew that, it’s just ’cause they were discussing monies, and there’s an example of what they improvised with!
Muh-Muh-Muh-Muuuh!
Thank you all for you insights! I took the course because the teacher is great (interesting and fair) even though I knew little about poker. Thanks to Craig, I’m rewatching all TNG episodes so it seems like the perfect topic to do a paper on.
Polt, you make several extremely good points including that Picard didn’t join the game until the final episode. I planned on talking about that and the fact that poker was used to help bring the characters closer and show them when they weren’t working. Data said in one of the episodes that he played the game because it was helping him understand human behavior, another great point.
Nicolle, I hadn’t thought about them choosing an old fashioned ‘simple game’ before. That’s really interesting. Despite all the super technology, they did still value things like cards and books.
Craig, I love your point about bluffing. They did bluff in a number of episodes perhaps the greatest being The Corbonite Manuever from the original series.
Tam: I understand your skeptisim but trust me it’s anything but as my Mom would say, “a Mickey Mouse course”. I myself had no idea how much literature and avenues for discussion about poker. We’ve read several non fiction and fiction books and watched movies, studying what poker and gambling in general says about society and a person’s character. Its not an easy course but the teacher makes it very interesting.
Michelle,
I’d be interested to know what type of poker they were playing in TNG. There are, relatively, many ways to play poker. As David said, there are varieties where you do not really do any betting until the cards are set. This is not true with Texas Hold-Em. You make bets as the cards are dealt out with the only two static cards being those in your hand. So, I think it would be interesting to see if you can tell what version they played and/or speculate on why they played a specific version (or maybe if the version is inconsistent). Also, IIRC, Riker was always(almost?) able to beat Data. This seems similar to human/chess games. Is there more nuance to Poker (body language, etc.) than chess? Good luck with your paper!
Yeah, I don’t know how to play poker. Maybe if they were playing Parcheesi I’d have some insight. Since they didn’t use money, maybe they played strip poker? Now that’s an episode I would watch.
Good luck on your paper Michelle.
I have played poker with friends a few times a long time ago. I don’t think I have ever played for money, since I really dislike gambling. I doubt that I even remember the rules.
I know very little about Star Trek. The absence of money surprises me. I am curious how well they implemented that concept. The concept of money makes many transactions much easier than bartering would be. I can’t envision a practical human future without some kind of currency.
Josh: I think “disco stick” sounds better than “throbbing erection”. I don’t care about the graphic language, it just sounds better. I would probably prefer the radio edits of Lady Ga Ga songs.
We are always amazed when we hear radio edits in the US because they happen very very rarely in Canada. None of the ones mentioned here have every been edited. They let the f-word fly if its in a song. It makes us crazy because its hard to sing along when they keep changing the words on us.
So I don’t remember this too well, but in the original (or at least a few of the movies) didn’t Kirk play poker with Spock and Spock’s father? I know it isn’t TNG, but I think it is an interesting element of poker in Trek. The vulcans were particularly good at manipulating and bluffing. An exercise to practice their skills. I feel like in a society without money it would be more about being good enough to deceive and take everything away (um, I mean win, that sounds more positive right?) even if you don’t care so much abou what the actual item is.
When I first read this post I thought the same thing that ScottieC thought that they must have been playing for something if not money. My own experience with poker and other card games is that the games are a lot more interesting when there is a little something (penny-nickle-dime poker for example) on the line besides bragging rights. If not then its easy for the players to lose focus (similar to all the side conversations that go on hear in the Punta-Land comment section) or in some cases just throw in their cards and get up from the table.
But then I thought about the episodes of TNG that I have seen where they played poker and I seem to remember that Worf was frequently frustrated by the other player’s lack of focus on the card game so I am inclined to think that maybe they were only playing for bragging rights. I also never remember “settling up” at the end of a game so that is another reason that I believe that they were only playing for bragging rights.
Philip: They usually played 5 card draw or 5 card stud with various wild cards. Excellent point that body language is a key tool used in poker. Learning to “read” a person is an important part of the game and it separates it from other gambling activities.
Michelle M: I’d especially like to see the new movie cast (Chis Pine) play strip poker.
Ian: I definitely wouldn’t want to play with Spock or any Vulcan talk about perfect poker face.
And I agree with you and Adam that in Star Trek it is more about bragging rights. Picard said in First Contact ” You see, money doesn’t exist in the 24th century… We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity.” I think the replicator also helped make money obsolete. You can make food, a viola, clothes, practically anything.
Adam: I noticed the same thing about Worf! He was definitely impatient. (Your mention of side talk reminded me of the scene when Data learned “small talk”. That was was one of the funniest moments.) I think that the poker games were another way that we learned more about the characters. Riker was a great bluffer and a poor loser.
It makes me happy to think there are people teaching at a school where the curriculum committee would approve a “Poker in Literature” course proposal.
Did the course readings include Willa Cather’s “The Enchanted Bluff”?
TwoPi: No it didn’t include The Enchanted Bluff. It sounds interesting. What is it about? Now we are finishing The Biggest Game In Town by A. Alvarez and we’ll be starting Poker Nation Sunday.
In my opinion, if man kind evolves to the level where money is not needed, there will be some allure with the concept of money and wagering. Enter the card game of Poker.
After watching this Pro site i decided to remember it!