Where does the line between Homage, Borrowing, and Plagiarism exist? I asked myself that question a lot as I was doing my novel writing month back in August. A Tale of Ordinary Creatures is the story of an elf trying to rescue his friends from abductors (elfnappers, perhaps?). But the backdrop of the story that would (hopefully) span over the course of a few books would be an evil force trying to come back to power. That basic premise of course has previously been done in The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. Is it possible to do it again? Surely the idea of a dark force coming back to power can be original if it’s written in an original way, and their means and motivations for doing so are also original, right? I mean, there won’t be a single object to give them ultimate power, like the ring, or the blood of the enemy to give them rebirth, like Voldemort. So I’m of the opinion that the dark power rising up again is still a viable storyline that can be reused if done in a captivating and original way. Correct?
Now of course I did see myself stepping waaaaay past the line of plagiarism when I found myself writing about a broken sword, like that of Narsil/Andúril from Lord of the Rings. As I was writing it I was like “WTF Craig? You suck.” So I have to go back and rework that aspect of the story so I’m not being such an asshat. So I am capable of looking at my work and seeing plagiarism, and that gives me hope that my writing can be quite original, even if some other aspects of the story have been seen before.
But some tougher parts that I find difficult to determine whether it’s plagiarism or not is when there’s a slight similarity to other stuff I’ve seen. For example, I wrote a scene that’s essentially a big troll smackdown (I love writing action scenes by the way) and at the end of the fight, the “good” troll is drowning the “bad” troll and taking things a bit too far when she is stopped by her best friend, a cat named Bernie. Now, is that too similar to the Incredible Hulk stories where the Hulk would need to be stopped before he killed someone? Or is it different enough to be original? Or am I borrowing the idea in a respectful way that doesn’t plagiarize? Or is it downright plagiarism?
What do you guys think? If something reminds me of something else, does that mean it needs to be scrapped right away? Or can things be similar, but different enough to be original? I’m of the opinion that the Incredible Hulk wasn’t the first story about two goliaths going head to head, and that it shouldn’t be the last. In any case, I think (and hope) that my writing and the overall scope of my story is original enough that slight instances of familiarity can be overlooked.
I think that, as long as you’re making a good faith effort to be original, even if some small elements of your story are vaguely reminiscent of another work, you’re good.
Still, I think there’s a tipping point between homage and plagiarism.
For instance… The opening scenes of Scream were an homage to When A Stranger Calls, within a larger work. The Fast and the Furious is an obvious (just about scene for scene) rip-off of Point Break. There’s a distinction there, I think. Kevin Williamson was paying homage to the earlier movie as an influence on horror in general. Gary Scott Thompson, meanwhile, was all, “If I make it about cars instead of surfing, it’ll be totally different.”
The troll situation does *not* sound like plagiarism to me. It does sound like a situation that some “heroes” or “good guys” find themselves in: going a bit too far in their fight for what’s right. To say this was lifted from the Hulk would be ridiculous.
Homage is when you pay tribute to another author or work in your own, usually through the reference of particular names, or the style of a particular scene. (For instance, from movies, the staircase scene in Battleship Potemkin; which has been referenced in other films from The Untouchables to Brazil.)
Plagiarism is when you use the words or plot points of another author in the same or barely different language and pass it off as your own without acknowledgement to the previous author. (For instance, the dozens of students who handed in essays to me that were nothing more than copies of Wikipedia pages, usually with only 1 word change per sentence, sometimes none, and 1 time with the blue hyperlinks still left in.)
Borrowing is a moot point as it could refer to either homage or plagiarism depending on how you use the material.
The broken sword in your story could be considered homage since you like the idea of it from Tolkien’s work. Especially if you use it in a different way. However, if you call the sword “Nersil” and the plot point is that it is reforged so a character can claim his rightful place as leader, then that aspect of the story would veer toward plagiarism.
As John pointed out, your troll smackdown falls more under the catagory of a trope. A repeated theme common to many stories. In this case, the good guy who’s just about to go over the edge and cross a line but is brought back at the last moment by his friends. (You’ll see this in Buffy in Season 6.)
Please for the love of god do not write another “Faster Than the Speed of Love” by Brian Griffin
Personally if I was reading about a Troll and a cat named Bernie the last thing I would think of is the Hulk.
The story of “a dark power rising up again” is at least as old as The Apocalypse, and I’m sure even older. That doesn’t mean it is “borrowed” or “Plagiarised”. It’s just a theme, and a Universal one at that.
If you ever write a children’s book called “The Cat in the Cap”….Then you’ll be “borrowing”.
I’m full of quotation marks today.
Paul: YAY! I told suggested that title to a screen writer friend of mine the other day. I had to explain the reference, but it was met with laughter.
South Park addressed this in The Simpsons Already Did It. I would focus more on making the writing and story better rather than trying to purge anything that has a hint of being done before. A well written but somewhat derivative story can be worth reading. Trying to remove things that may have been done before could make your story into something that resembles a botched plastic surgery with the parts not fitting together natural despite being new.
Completely off topic: Kristin Chenoweth was on last night’s Glee!
Cupcake: “Kristin Chenoweth was on last night’s Glee!” And was hysterical! She is so funny!
Everything has been done before. The trick is to do it in a way that is unique to your own creative expression.
I would be careful to try and avoid obvious borrowing (FDots example with the sword,) however; it would be an impossible task to make every scene, symbol, plot, etc. completely original. I have the same problem when I write, because I have read so many books I can’t help but notice that this or that is just like something I read somewhere else.
What is important is that whatever you write works well for your story, and isn’t just thrown in ’cause you think “it would be cool if…”
Oh, and the theme of a dark power rising up again is such a universal tool in the fantasy genre and you shouldn’t feel like you are wrong to use it; just look at The Sword of Shanara, the Mistborn series, the Wheel of Time series, the Sword of Truth series (which I think actually does cross the line into plagiarism when it’s compared to the Wheel of Time,) etc, etc…
I don’t remember who said it, but someone once quipped “every story written has already been done by Shakespeare.” Or something along those lines.
I’m trying to think of a fantasy story that doesn’t involve a dark power trying to rise.
Lord of the Rings: check.
Harry Potter: check.
Dresden Files: check.
Codex Alera: check.
Dragonlance: check, check, etc.
Nightrunner: check.
Cupcake: I can’t wait for the next book in the Nightrunner series! And the last book of the Codex Alera should be coming out in November!
(insert fanboy squeal here)
Nico: I still haven’t got to the fourth book of the Nightrunner series. I only started reading them in the past year, and I have to go out of my way to visit the bookstores that have copies. I hadn’t realized that there was another one coming.
I have the last book of the Codex Alera on my list of upcoming media on my google homepage. I can’t wait to see how it is resolved.
Don’t forget Hairy Squatter and the Sorcerer?s Bone
“….taking things a bit too far when she is stopped by her best friend…” That might not be plagiarism, but it is definitely overused. I say scrap it!
As both readers and writers, we do need to be mindful of this distinction. When I first began writing, I’m sure that much of my work was reminiscent of the writers that I admire. However, as you produce more work, I believe you develop your own style and work from there. But there is always that question…. am I copying someone I admire, or using some of their ideas/sentiments to produce my own work? For example, when I write a depressing poem, is it because I admire the work of Anne Sexton so much? The way I see it, there are an infinite number of ways to say something, so when you are striving for originality, it can often come on the level of the word/sentence. ‘Themes’ are going to be recycled no matter what; language doesn’t necessarily fall into that same trap.
Since I’m late to the party, I’m just going to stick with yeah, what they said.
I love when we get dorky on here. Okay, fine, we’re dorky everyday, but this is dorkier than usual. When Ryan starts making checklists of fantasy series, you know we’re in a good place.
Thanks for all the advice and clarification everyone!
Will: Good example with Scream. I’ve never seen Point Break or F&F but I’ll take your word on it.
Paul: LOL @ “Faster Than the Speed of Love” by Brian Griffin. I got it right away! So funny. I love that whole scene between him and Lois.
FDot: Thank you. But I’m still a little worried about using the broken sword. It could be done differently, but it’s still a little too similar.
Yay for Kristin Chenoweth!
Enrico: YOU’RE overused. Yeah, I went there.
I think originality is overrated. Having a good story and telling that story well is the most important part–and the hardest.
That said, there is a huge difference between being “unoriginal” and plagiarizing someone else’s work.
Craig: I also enjoyed the laler development when he got it published and didn’t sell one copy despite having an Oprah Book Club sticker on it.
“And that’s the plot of one of the sequels!”
Craig : the scene you loved – CLICK HERE
Perhaps you could write a satire like this – CLICK HERE
Every story line that can be done has already been done in comic books.
HUGS…
“I’m gonna pee my pants!”
Thanks Paul!
People have been writing stories for 2000+ years. I don’t think there are any truly original ideas left. How you portray those ideas, the characterization, the setting, those can be original and unique but really, everything has been done before in some way or another.
There are tropes as FDot said (although I really really hate that word), and there’s not much you can do with that. You can’t avoid them all or you’d have a very short book, but putting interesting characters that we care about with unique abilities/talents makes it interesting.
I’ve been hanging out with some authors on-line lately and holy crap, writing is hard work.
Thinking about stuff like you did, always being aware, making sure you aren’t head hopping with POV (although personally head hopping doesn’t bother me), keeping your dialogue coherent, making sure you don’t reuse the same phrases or words repeatedly. I salute you for pursuing it so diligently because too many authors just toss crap on the page and think that’s good enough.
Actually, here’s an interesting article at the GLBT Bookshelf about Recycled Ideas written by an author.
Tam: 2000+ years ago, they were writing about there being nothing new under the sun.
I’m kinda late to the party here, too, so I’ll just shout an ‘amen’ to most of the folks’ comments.
Most stuff has already been done, it’s the author’s unique take on it that usually makes the difference between a ho-hum novel and one that’s intriguing and fun to read. I love cheesy detective/police novels (I use the term ‘novel’ loosely…) of the twenties and thirties. The writing is wonderfully stiff and dated, but sometimes the stories are just so damn good because they’re different than what others are writing about nowadays. That makes them awesome, because I’m getting something fresh yet recycled at the same time.
And really, let’s face it — if it’s fantasy, it has to have at least some of the elements that are universal to fantasy, just like my detective novels have to have a mystery, a hot chick in distress, and a healthy dose of gunplay.
mmmmmmmmmmmmm, “gunplay” lol
I agree with the “nothing new under the sun” theory. And think of all the books you haven’t read. Who’s to say that you won’t unknowingly use a character device/phrase/plot point that someone has used before you? It seems almost impossible to avoid. You are very creative and have a unique perspective. As long as you steer clear of wizards in boarding schools and werewolf/human/sparkly vampire stories, I think you’ll be fine.
Michelle: But what if Craig wants to make lots of money with minimal effort?
I agree with everyone. Don’t start picking apart your work. What if George Lucas thought his light sabers were too close to swords and decided to eliminate them? Or if Stephen Sondheim decided not to write West Side Story because Shakespeare had already done it before in Romeo and Juliet? The characters may be put in the same situation (such as star crossed lovers- how many movies have those?) but they are different characters. Mulder and Scully may encounter vampires or werewolves but what makes it interesting is that it is them doing it.
The fact that you are writing it makes it original. It’s your characters that came from your imagination written in your voice. That is what makes it amazing and wonderful.
And ya know, I don’t recall ever reading of a troll who had a cat as a friend. Sounds pretty original to me.
HUGS….
When I write my poemz and shit I constantly having my poetic inspirationz dancing around in my head (Sexton, Plath, Bruno). There will be lines in songz or movies or in bookz that really hit me hard that I will want so badly to work into my own writing. And it’s fine to borrow an idea to get the ball rolling…but as tingz progress and your idea really takez form, you can start to trim away the less original ideaz and you’ll be left with your original work.
My understanding is that plagiarism, especially in the written form, requires the very same words to be used in significant amount to be proven. As for the dark power rising issue, that’s just life: you need a conflict and slow-burning ones provide the best pay off. What else could you write about, for heavens sake?
An old writing teacher of mine used to say “bad writers borrow: good writers steal.” Good advice, I think.